tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post4420077178549158300..comments2024-03-04T00:09:50.431-08:00Comments on Rikdad's Comic Thoughts: Batman and Robin 12Rikdadhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14475851964933197612noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-30759312521839053842010-07-04T03:54:27.147-07:002010-07-04T03:54:27.147-07:00didn't see mentioned here or there that the na...didn't see mentioned here or there that the name (word) 'thomas' means twin.milanKovacshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03763406650106293117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-30155842186539893922010-06-15T21:20:50.918-07:002010-06-15T21:20:50.918-07:00Ok 1 question I've never seen answered, Joker ...Ok 1 question I've never seen answered, Joker very clearly sees that Bruce Wayne is Batman in the penultimate issue of RIP so how couldn't he possibly know who Bruce is?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-70156066215255619922010-06-02T13:39:20.789-07:002010-06-02T13:39:20.789-07:00Hi guys!
Like Jack, I'm french, so excuse my ...Hi guys!<br /><br />Like Jack, I'm french, so excuse my poor english. When reading the sollicits for the "batman must die" arc, I asked myself is the foes who nearly killed Batman were Hurt and Darkseid, who surely will make acomeback sooner or later. Indeedn he nearly killed Bruce bygiving him a fate "worse than death", and boobytrapping him.<br /><br />But it's very unlikely for morrison to use him in B&R, though it would be an unexpected twist. I really hope this will tie with "batman 666", which becomes more and more interesting.<br /><br />I find a Dick/Joker team up better thana hurt/joker team up, but Tony Daniel once said Joker was gonna be creepier than ever, so I don't think it will be this way.<br /><br />Also, Morrison said Bruce would return shortly after B&R 16, didn't he? So "Batman must die" is not the last arc in this serie?BatLéohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00577476388051669749noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-73846290618758987382010-05-11T02:01:49.438-07:002010-05-11T02:01:49.438-07:00During the confrontation between Bruce and Joker i...During the confrontation between Bruce and Joker in RIP, Joker tells Bruce that he "found out who Doctor Hurt is and why he hates you," so Joker is likely saner than we think during that scene, and he also obviously knows more than Dick or we the audience do about the situation they're about to find themselves in. He's going to play the role of some kind of authority figure during the next arc, whether that's through a reluctant team-up or merely taunts like he delivers to Bruce during the climax of RIP.Ian Stewarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03975812931172457107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-33893935750140503072010-05-10T18:55:51.819-07:002010-05-10T18:55:51.819-07:00About the "Double You", I'm not sure...About the "Double You", I'm not sure if Morrison is really going to go into this kind of detail, but a "W" is really a "double V" (and in French at least, that's what the letter is called). Could the two V's be Vane and Vine? "Vane" and "Vine" in double-combination make "Wayne"?Santa1Lardnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01570397892373877610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-48184527958281601342010-05-10T14:52:26.891-07:002010-05-10T14:52:26.891-07:00Not really #12 related, but i just had to share th...Not really #12 related, but i just had to share this with you Rikdad, Dal and others!<br /><br />http://techland.com/2010/05/07/exclusive-interview-grant-morrison-on-batman-times-three/<br /><br />So the "Joker we've never before seen like" is actually happening in the 5th arc, huh thats pretty darn intriquing if you ask me. Also #700 is sounding downright awesome.Zzzzzrdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16123833646656437608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-31341327707653213042010-05-10T14:01:01.452-07:002010-05-10T14:01:01.452-07:00DS, that's a nice way to account for 99 (= 91 ...DS, that's a nice way to account for 99 (= 91 + 8). It's cherry picking the details from different sources: The Lesser Key of Solomon only has 72 demons. But it could work.<br /><br />I think "Double You" is going to mean that Hurt *is* two beings (e.g., and man and the Devil possessing him). Of course, hidden identities is part of the superhero genre going back to Clark Kent. I think it's less likely to be Hurt identifying himself as the double of someone else (e.g., Bruce)... that seems too dismissive of himself. E.g., Luthor doesn't think of himself as Superman's dark shadow. He thinks of Superman as *his* dark shadow.Rikdadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14475851964933197612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-69626190787531377862010-05-09T20:38:32.221-07:002010-05-09T20:38:32.221-07:00Can I post on here without an account? I'll tr...Can I post on here without an account? I'll try. I sent you an e-mail anyway rikdad. Damnit I can't... OK I'll register.<br /><br />To sum up:<br />Barbatos seems to be the big bad. He is demon #8 in The Lesser Key of Solomon. That means there are 91 demons below him... and there are a possible 91 dominos... It IS an order of ranking. I'm convinced of it.<br /><br />Maybe the 7 demons above him are (1) defeated or (2) names for the devil himself, as you've sortof hinted at.<br /><br />Anyway thought I'd try and make the domino thing make sense.<br /><br />Also the Double You probably has some reference to Bruce Wayne/Batman being two parts of the man, or two versions of him as well as the other stuff you're all saying (Morrison likes to layer things, doesn't he?!)DShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09583769910713877095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-75821819225887924992010-05-09T08:30:02.057-07:002010-05-09T08:30:02.057-07:00Rikdad, in regards to "Vine", the first ...Rikdad, in regards to "Vine", the first thing I thought of was "Vane", as in Commissioner Vane (mentioned in 672) and Vanity City (the setting for the Aztek series, named after a Vane who was said to be a rival industrialist of Bruce's father). I'm not sure if these surnames are going to turn out to have the same etymological root, but if they do then I guess it makes sense for a "Vine" to be the last BG member alive, so he can reveal some hidden history.Santa1Lardnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01570397892373877610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-53415593796029092462010-05-09T06:30:41.734-07:002010-05-09T06:30:41.734-07:00I think Dr. hurt is also domino killer. At the end...I think Dr. hurt is also domino killer. At the end of the issue, he seems to be getting ready to kill Senator vine.<br /><br />One question for rikdad: Is Dr hurt from the same dimension as Darkseid? Is he also one of the DC Gods? because I don't think DCU's Gods are remotely similar to our Gods. Secondly, isn't NEKRON the official DC devil?<br /><br />Considering all this I think Dr hurt is Barbatos.<br /><br />Also I think we are going to see the ultimate team-up, i.e., Batman and Joker working together against a common foe,Dr. Hurt. I think Joker will be Dick's trojan horse.<br /><br />Also you didn't mention in your article about Damian's clone brother. What's your views on it. Will he be he Damian's dark twin?Mayankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08299648804875969721noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-20820815342621981352010-05-08T11:56:40.995-07:002010-05-08T11:56:40.995-07:00DAL, I thought you might note before I did that th...DAL, I thought you might note before I did that the senator's name, Vine, is yet another name that resembles "Wayne". (Phonologically, /w/ and /v/ are similar consonants, and the diphthongs in the middle are similar, too.)Rikdadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14475851964933197612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-29106083706848474172010-05-08T06:30:59.661-07:002010-05-08T06:30:59.661-07:00http://comics.ign.com/articles/106/1063765p1.html
...http://comics.ign.com/articles/106/1063765p1.html<br /><br />Here's the interview Rikdad. You can also notice the 5th arc he calls is "Batman and Robin must die!" yet DC is promoting it as "Batman must die!" :p It's pretty much R.I.P 2.0 with Joker, Hurt and Batman in between the chaos.<br /><br />Also yeah the black sun is very interesting, because we have to remember Dick immediatly thinks of Justice League, ofcourse this could be simply because of the cowl itself, but it's very hard to tell.Zzzzzrdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16123833646656437608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-20601678362481867172010-05-08T06:13:22.677-07:002010-05-08T06:13:22.677-07:00Last thing for now: With all the possible "ec...Last thing for now: With all the possible "eclipse" business, I wonder if Morrison will have the moniker "Wayne" come about in the first place because of a connection to the sun (or moon) WANING as it's eclipsed.Santa1Lardnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01570397892373877610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-73818275889444292792010-05-08T06:07:55.731-07:002010-05-08T06:07:55.731-07:00Have followed and enjoyed your work Rikdad since t...Have followed and enjoyed your work Rikdad since the start of the Black Glove run. I thought the Joker's line at the end was revealing - namely, that Damien is 'clearly not the detective his predecessors were'. Morrison always emphasises certain words by putting them in bold. Here 'detective' and 'predecessors' are marked. So the Joker knows that there have been a number of Robins (clearly, since he killed one), and he seems to be paying a tribute to the detective skills of one of them (that is, Grayson) knowing that one of these Robins is now the new Batman standing before him.Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07336195400120460286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-51435812312842199792010-05-08T06:06:05.957-07:002010-05-08T06:06:05.957-07:00Ha! Rikdad, I was thinking about mentioning that s...Ha! Rikdad, I was thinking about mentioning that sort of an eclipse trick in my last post, but it was running too long. I can definitely imagine Bruce Wayne telling the primitive people "Watch as the wings of the giant bat in the sky block out the sun!"Santa1Lardnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01570397892373877610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-52773502267345574452010-05-08T03:59:05.342-07:002010-05-08T03:59:05.342-07:00Sorry guys, I'm a French guy so I don't ta...Sorry guys, I'm a French guy so I don't talk english a lot (may be a little ;) )<br /><br />I just want to say: the mini-me Damian is a player of the "double you" thematic. The evil twin, the bad brother, like Thomas Wayne (and domino).<br />Not the older Thomas Wayne, the Thomas Wayne jr. who was created by Bob Haney (but, it's pretty the same in concept.)<br />I dont think Morrison want to give a twin brother of Bruce Wayne, and I don't say that, but Morrison use the Thomas Wayne Jr in JLA earth two (to rearrange the continuity?)and that is the "double you".<br />we know Morrison use the all continuity, and revise it, to be all-life time of the Caped Crusader.<br />Thomas Wayn is no longer the twin brother now, he is the grand grand grand grand grand old father, a little crazy (the first time, Hurt said he was the father of Bruce).<br /><br />I think the mini-me will come back in Batman #700 with the futur story sequence (Drawn by Kubert?)<br /><br />And, if I talk of Bob Haney, like you know, that's because Morrison already use him with Giant-Bat, and Demon guards Waineswright. ;)Jackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02998582928546264650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-32541100209940971882010-05-07T21:47:30.590-07:002010-05-07T21:47:30.590-07:00Moira, Morrison gave Millar the idea for the time ...Moira, Morrison gave Millar the idea for the time loop in Red Son. A time loop was part of Alan Moore's Twilight of the Superheroes proposal, and Final Crisis had enough to remind me of TOTS to make me wonder if the time loop idea was actively inspired by TOTS.<br /><br />Neat point about the windows and dominoes. None of them look *exactly* like dominoes, but a lot of them look somewhat like dominoes. There's also a building at upper right whose windows are lit in a pattern that resembles three glyphs, but it's not "legible" even when flipped, rotated, reversed, etc.<br /><br />I have no idea how the thread culling works on the DC Boards, although it's been conspiratorally suggested that I have something to do with it. The only way I know of to "make" a thread go away is to behave badly, but some threads seem to go away anyway. Here at my blog, no such worry.Rikdadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14475851964933197612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-11244316877969928672010-05-07T21:41:24.962-07:002010-05-07T21:41:24.962-07:00DAL, I think the mini-me is just setting up future...DAL, I think the mini-me is just setting up future stories. Talia seems to be Morrison's third favorite villain in the sandbox.<br /><br />Hurt's dialogue is so savory when left ambiguous, that it would be a shame, in a way, ever to find out what "Double You" means. Another Thomas? Another Bruce? Another deity? A man possessed?<br /><br />Good thoughts on the possible Hurt-Bruce outcome. If the climax comes at the end of the narration, it might be in ROBW #5 or #6. If in medias res, earlier. Or in Batman #700. Or there may be "epic" encounters between them that settle the matter in one era, leaving other encounters until future eras. That's how the Sheeda were used in Seven Soldiers. Victories are a big deal, but they last for centuries, not forever.Rikdadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14475851964933197612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-82704161480600247992010-05-07T21:34:38.231-07:002010-05-07T21:34:38.231-07:00Drazar, the "black sun" is definitely go...Drazar, the "black sun" is definitely going to represent something. An infamous trick that Christopher Columbus pulled was to predict an eclipse and thereby convince the locals that he was very powerful. Maybe Bruce does the same thing with a solar eclipse?<br /><br />I missed the bit about Gordon's role. Maybe I missed an interview?<br /><br />We'll see about Damian. I think the deal will come later. At least, invulnerability would seem to ruin the present state of the character.Rikdadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14475851964933197612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-30169868070172533232010-05-07T21:05:40.707-07:002010-05-07T21:05:40.707-07:00The only "Red Son" I am aware of is Mark...The only "Red Son" I am aware of is Mark Millar's story. Is there one by Morrison as well?<br /><br />Do you have any idea why quite a number of Batman Board threads including the one regarding your blog are disappearing? The one I posted asking this question apparently did not even last long enough for me to see if there were any answers.<br /><br />I'll be back again to reread your analysis....just one little fun, non consequential thing....did you notice that a number of buildings in the train scene had dominoes for windows?moirahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17691540607999312229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-22656596039864205322010-05-07T16:55:25.613-07:002010-05-07T16:55:25.613-07:00The biggest monkeywrench that #12 threw into the m...The biggest monkeywrench that #12 threw into the mix, in my opinion, was the revelation of a new Damian clone. I can't for the life of me figure out what purpose this could serve in the story. Why would Morrison need to include this?<br /><br />"Both the past and present manifestations of Doctor Hurt's coming attack have been revealed only partially, in some of the best shadowy narration the comic book genre has ever seen."<br /><br />Agreed. Every line Hurt utters is like dark epic poetry. The last few issues of this have been especially powerful. "You see the sign of the DOUBLE YOU? The mark of the shadow. The dark twin." Spooky.<br /><br />I also think Morrison's caveman-speak from the RoBW #1 preview was pretty great and unique in its own way. (Like primal poetry; and come to think of it, the confines of word balloons sort of turn comic book dialogue into poetry anyway. Heh.)<br /><br />Is the "W" shape of Wayne Manor also a "sign of the DOUBLE YOU"? And if so, what does that mean, exactly? If this is also "the mark of the shadow", then does that "shadow" correspond to the silhouette/shadow of the bat that falls across the circular light of the sun (or of the projector on top of the GCPD building) to make a bat-symbol? So I guess the bat in the bat-symbol does look sort of like a "W". Interesting things to think over. <br /><br />It seems as if Hurt is basically staking his claim for owner of the "W" (and of the bat-symbol) along with ownership of the Wayne dynasty. Perhaps Bruce(& co.)'s fight against Hurt will also be a somewhat metaphysical effort to claim back these symbols for their own (non-evil) use. It's almost the question of whether the Devil is really part of God's plan or not. Hurt wants to be the bat-devil so as to revel in pure evil, whereas Bruce uses bat-devil imagery to scare people (the way the Devil scares the religious into being good). The symbology of Batman (and the "W") is--I guess--like a sigil: Hurt wants to use it for an evil spell, but Bruce wouldn't want it used that way. But what if Hurt tries to conjure up the original primal "demon" who inspired all this bat-devil stuff...and what if when he does that Bruce Wayne pops out at him?<br /><br />As far as the series originally concluding with #12...I just think that whatever "filler" Morrison has included is going to be stuff that he makes integral anyway. So there is no filler. I don't think we can figure out much from the original target end-point. Whatever it was that was added in to extend the series, no doubt Morrison has already continually rebuilt the overall saga in his mind with every issue, so everything is (almost) equally as important.Santa1Lardnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01570397892373877610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-78939463417946704092010-05-07T11:33:16.734-07:002010-05-07T11:33:16.734-07:00I'd still like to mention the black sun found ...I'd still like to mention the black sun found in the Batcave. Orion's helm has a sun symbol, and we know Darkseid had this whole eternal dark pit hole thing... Not to mention we see a well in the room, is that symbolic for an eternal black hole? Am i looking too much into this?<br /><br />Ah well just a random mention: We know from IGN.COM interview that Gordon will be in the Batbunker, so i guess Dick is really going to need everyones' help to stop Hurt's Thomas Wayne act and whatnot. Hopefully we can see Morrison write Tim Drake to assist them, but then again this is BATMAN and Robin after all.<br /><br />Still it's going to be interestiing to see what happens. Will Hurt fool Damian that he killed Dick, and thus Damian sells his soul to barbatos? Ooh so much excitment! :DZzzzzrdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16123833646656437608noreply@blogger.com