tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post5898764178371879672..comments2024-03-04T00:09:50.431-08:00Comments on Rikdad's Comic Thoughts: Superman: Doomed, Chapters 1-3Rikdadhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14475851964933197612noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-16453578268759391432014-07-02T20:28:34.338-07:002014-07-02T20:28:34.338-07:00Mark, you're right, although the text in Super...Mark, you're right, although the text in Superman: Doomed is vague on the history. It says of one computer image of Doomsday, "this is the Doomsday you're most accustomed to meeting." That implies that Superman has met Doomsday more than a couple of times, but doesn't indicate what those meetings were. The same meetings we saw in various Jurgens-written stories? As you say, it's been indicated elsewhere that at least one of the meetings led to Superman's death.<br /><br />Hal Jordan's time as Parallax is also in continuity, and that was related to Superman's death, while the JLA that initially fought Doomsday is not in continuity, so we have a mishmash of 1990s stories that are and aren't in continuity, and it would be nice to get further clarification.<br /><br />But for the matter at hand, it's for sure, Doomsday did kill Superman before, and the current story builds on that past.Rikdadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14475851964933197612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-8073770852633994812014-06-06T12:50:49.495-07:002014-06-06T12:50:49.495-07:00Reverse that, Doomsday DID kill Superman. Oops.Reverse that, Doomsday DID kill Superman. Oops.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06566801668493107543noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-39273479125076896732014-06-06T12:50:17.414-07:002014-06-06T12:50:17.414-07:00Rikdad, you're wrong on this one. Superman did...Rikdad, you're wrong on this one. Superman did kill Doomsday, it just isn't something he's very open to discussing with people in-story(metatext). Doomed itself specifies that the current Doomsday Superman is fighting is an evolved version of the one he fought years ago. They even show a visual comparison depicting the classic Doomsday overlaid to the New 52 version.<br /><br />You might also want to check the previews for Johns and Romita's Superman run. The opening pages detail Daily Planet headlines leading up to Forever Evil. It has the "Superman dies" cover story, and then "Superman lives!", both throwbacks to the classic pictures. Perry event comments and confirms that Superman died, returned, and then Lex became a hero in Forever Evil. This is Johns planting them firmly in continuity. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06566801668493107543noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-11832178857670410872014-05-22T11:32:52.114-07:002014-05-22T11:32:52.114-07:00Another important datum on Doomsday to add to the ...Another important datum on Doomsday to add to the research: In Superman-Wonder Woman #2, which is the first time in the New 52 that any of the protagonists discuss Doomsday, it is very clear that Wonder Woman has no previous knowledge of Doomsday, and if Superman ever fought Doomsday before, he doesn't allude to it when he seemingly would.<br /><br />So, if Doomsday did fight Superman before, that fight is not known to Wonder Woman and he doesn't tell her about it. Either it didn't happen, or he's deliberately hiding it from her, or something funny is going on with space-time.<br /><br />Swamp Thing #1 made a reference to Superman having come back from the dead, but offers no specifics.<br /><br />Morrison, as we've seen, wrote a story where Superman's death did take place, but played around with space-time to an extent that it's easily reinterpreted.<br /><br />I, too, don't care much about differences of intent between the writers of these various stories, as long as they do something good with each story. It was always clear that Morrison's Batman and Dini's Batman were hard to reconcile factually, but they both wrote great stories and didn't throw contradictions in the reader's face, so I'm extremely happy with the directions they took.Rikdadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14475851964933197612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-85159817263453970912014-05-20T15:47:48.413-07:002014-05-20T15:47:48.413-07:00Rikdad --
Thank you for researching that. Continu...Rikdad --<br /><br />Thank you for researching that. Continuity is certainly fluid in the New 52. That doesn't bother me -- I just hope the story in front of me at the moment is compelling and internally consistent.<br /><br />ManWithTenEyeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09501592644380773891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-63183073640091191442014-05-16T11:18:49.190-07:002014-05-16T11:18:49.190-07:00ManWithTenEyes,
Some clarification on whether or n...ManWithTenEyes,<br />Some clarification on whether or not Superman died at the hands of Doomsday in the New 52.<br /><br />It appears that the creators have shown a difference of opinion on this. Morrison said in an interview after his run that he believed the answer was yes, and wrote with that in mind. I misinterpreted that, with most of the unhappy events in Action being retroactively canceled, but Morrison intended the references to Superman's first death at the hands of Doomsday to have taken place.<br /><br />However, Charles Soule concluded a long answer to that question with: "I think there are a lot of open questions about Superman and Doomsday and his (quote/unquote) 'death.'"<br /><br />So apparently the matter is somewhat open, or has some qualification coming (or not!), and we'll have to read the current story to find out.Rikdadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14475851964933197612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-33645328848715833342014-05-15T19:15:35.470-07:002014-05-15T19:15:35.470-07:00Supes has definitely changed in terms of character...Supes has definitely changed in terms of characterization, but enforcement unsteady. <br />In "Unchained," he could well be pre-Flashpoint Supes. I even feel a bit of early '70s Superman there -- confident, concerned and drawn really, really well.<br /><br />But then you get to "Trinity War" and he's far too easily taken out of the action. Necessary for that plot perhaps, but everything about him in those issues says "weak."ManWithTenEyeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09501592644380773891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-42262818253971416082014-05-15T14:02:20.756-07:002014-05-15T14:02:20.756-07:00Speaking of Morrison's Action Comics, just wha...Speaking of Morrison's Action Comics, just what was that device Batman plants on him? Why tease us with a subplot when you knew you were leaving in a dew issues Grant? CURSES!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-58930572922039844082014-05-14T21:54:35.107-07:002014-05-14T21:54:35.107-07:00ManWithTenEyes,
I read most of the "Superman&...ManWithTenEyes,<br />I read most of the "Superman" titles rather rapidly recently, having missed most of it. I may or may not write that up, but I'll say that for one of the prime titles of a flagship character being rebooted, it felt uninspired and even disorganized, although I think Scott Lobdell has done nice things since he took over.<br /><br />I really like how Superman's characterization has changed since Flashpoint. I feel like it's dramatically improved a la my wishlist in my post "Who Took the Super Out of Superman?" I'm curious as to how that has been enforced so effectively across titles.<br /><br />The scene in Action we're referring to is early in Action #16, and the narration regarding Superman's first death at the hands of Doomsday continues on through #17. Interpreting what's happening with reality in those issues is not completely straightforward; for example, the deaths of the Mars colonists are depicted, but is retroactively made not real. I'll have to parse these issues more carefully and get back to your question. My earlier interpretation was that everything very bad was un-done by Superman's victory, but that may not be supported by the story. It's worth a closer look.Rikdadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14475851964933197612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-41351663487491254362014-05-14T18:51:24.910-07:002014-05-14T18:51:24.910-07:00Rikdad -- I find that Superman in the New 52 has b...Rikdad -- I find that Superman in the New 52 has been a mess of both narrative and characterization. Morrison's Action run had its high points, but much of the rest has been barely readable (Unchained started strong but the slow production schedule has lost me. The recent start of Greg Pak's Action run is the one bright spot, in my view.).<br /><br /> I'd feared the worst for the Doomed storyline, and your post confirms it. It is sad in 2014 that most of the Superman I read is from issues with numbered triangles on the front that I pull from my collection. Whatever flaws I once thought some of those stories had, they tower over present-day Superman.<br /><br />One question: You say the Lois and Jimmy who remember the Doomsday battle are not from the New 52. I recall that being mentioned in a particularly tangled Morrison issue, but I thought those were present-day Jimmy and Lois. Was I wrong?<br /><br />Thanks, as always, for your insight.ManWithTenEyeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09501592644380773891noreply@blogger.com