tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post2088264901987682566..comments2024-03-04T00:09:50.431-08:00Comments on Rikdad's Comic Thoughts: Flash FactsRikdadhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14475851964933197612noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-4388167312949681552011-09-20T10:49:14.070-07:002011-09-20T10:49:14.070-07:00Let me try another scenario to better explain my a...Let me try another scenario to better explain my approach on this.<br /><br />Flash can be standing completely still. His reaction time and timeframe are completely in synch with normal human reactions. Ergo, his strength and durability, not just his reflexes, are completely normal human.<br /><br />Flash is still standing completely still. But his reaction time and timeframe are now accelerated to a hundred times as fast as for us. In this case, he's not only capable of reacting from a stop a hundred times faster than we can, but he's a hundred times as strong, and however durable he needs to be to move at those speeds.<br /><br />We know the Flash can alter his perceptions and reaction time as per above. He can engage with normal humans in their timeframe. Or he can shift to a reaction time where everyone else are like statues to him. I'm just saying more than his perceptions adjust, that his very strength and durability adjust with those mental perceptions.<br /><br />That way, a Flash not actively using his speed is no more invulnerable than a mortal man so a baseball can knock him out. But when he's going fast as a bullet, said bullet would be largely ineffective on him.Captain Kalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08126140997992190288noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-18934747203657956282011-09-19T20:38:44.029-07:002011-09-19T20:38:44.029-07:00Hi Rikdad,
I am not talking about Special or Gene...Hi Rikdad,<br /><br />I am not talking about Special or General Relativity, but keeping his proportional/relative durability and strength depending on how much super-speed he's using.<br /><br />I'm suggesting the Flash's personal timeframe is the key here. I draw the distinction between merely moving fast and also having his reaction times and personal timeframe adjust to that increased speed. Whatever extra-normal force that grants him super-speed also adjusts his body variably so his body adapts to whatever speed he's using. If he's standing still, he's not using any super-speed, so he's as vulnerable and strong as any mortal man. The aura is usually invoked for this mechanism.<br /><br />A man driving a race car is certainly moving many times as fast as a normal man, but his reaction time and durability is still that of a normal man. Stick his fist out to slug someone or something, then expect him to break or pulp his fist. And an SST pilot isn't able to dodge bullets even if he is piloting a craft faster than bullets: he retains his normal human reaction times.<br /><br />If the Flash isn't merely moving super-fast but his reactions and whole body adjust to adapt to that higher speed, his durability and strength ramp up in proportion. If in his accelerated timeframe he still exerts himself in a way that would break his hand, he's still break his hand. But his relative durability and strength would be proportional to how much he's accelerated and adapted to that acceleration.<br /><br />I use the same reasoning for how Ultra Boy can punch through steel walls but be slugged by an ordinary man to get knocked out when using ultra-strength. His strength amps his durability to be proportional to what's needed to support his body's structure. But if he's acting at base level human strength, regardless of how his ultra-energy is focused, his durability is still that of an ordinary man. Act with ultra-strength at the level to lift a skyscraper, it would take a punch from someone strong enough to lift a skyscraper to have the same relative effect on him.<br /><br />I apply the same relative reasoning to the Flash's speed here.Captain Kalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08126140997992190288noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-16483059810039491162011-09-19T20:13:36.930-07:002011-09-19T20:13:36.930-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Captain Kalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08126140997992190288noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-14344873426387628762011-09-19T10:54:35.422-07:002011-09-19T10:54:35.422-07:00CK,
I see two problems with your proposal:
1) Th...CK,<br /><br />I see two problems with your proposal:<br /><br />1) That means that if the Flash is standing still, a baseball thrown from his side hitting him in the ear at, say, 200 mph, could fracture his skull. But if his arms and legs propel him to a forward speed of, say, 1000 mph, the same baseball thrown by someone (Zod, say) running alongside him wouldn't hurt much. It doesn't seem like his head should get tougher because of what his legs and arms are doing.<br /><br />And per thisisgone's discussion, relativity doesn't begin to address this. Relativistic effects are nearly zero at 1000 mph. And in the example I gave, the thrower and Flash are in the same inertial frame of reference anyway.<br /><br />This is somewhat related to Supplee's Paradox.<br /><br />2) It would still allow the Flash to do things that by tradition, he has not been able to do. Eg, standing still, he could not lift a car, but by running around in a small circle, he could lift the car. Even by dancing, without going anywhere, he would acquire such strength?<br /><br />Yet, something like what you suggest is present in some of the Flash's historical feats. But the suggestion is implicit, not explicit as you made it out. The Flash does do things that imply a great source of power that isn't there when he's not "being fast".Rikdadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14475851964933197612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-72749866707817988552011-09-19T07:20:58.324-07:002011-09-19T07:20:58.324-07:00Hi Rikdad,
These are my thoughts on lack of super...Hi Rikdad,<br /><br />These are my thoughts on lack of super-strength and invulnerability, or relatively so, for super-speedsters.<br /><br />Suppose that their durability is in proportion to how much super-speed they're using. If they're standing still reacting in close to human reaction time, their bodies have the same durability as an ordinary person. But their invulnerability ramps up relative to how fast they're going.<br /><br />Similarly, their strength also ramps up proportionally. But also notice that their reaction times and perceptions are much faster too. So, when going twice as fast as normal, instead of being four times as strong, they're only twice as strong since their faster reaction times cut down the period their strength is acting over.<br /><br />These don't solve all the problems but IMHO they do help make them more manageable and realistic.Captain Kalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08126140997992190288noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-73469293597869190252011-06-02T19:53:35.438-07:002011-06-02T19:53:35.438-07:00Heya Rikdad!
I'm disappointed that it has take...Heya Rikdad!<br />I'm disappointed that it has taken me this long to come back across this post...<br /><br />I defer to your point on the speed required for the Lorentz transformations to take place. It only makes sense. However, this begs the question - just how often does Flash reach these speeds? Silver and Bronze Age characterization would lead me to believe that Flash really didn't bust to much of a sweat at 87% the speed of light. I think you're absolutely right about a requisite non-Relativistic explanation at slower speeds. <br /><br />cheers!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-60086007144412691642009-12-21T10:13:39.646-08:002009-12-21T10:13:39.646-08:00Thanks, Greg -- I appreciate it!Thanks, Greg -- I appreciate it!Rikdadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14475851964933197612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-46758803990548396822009-12-15T16:55:42.498-08:002009-12-15T16:55:42.498-08:00this is the best Flash-related piece I've ever...this is the best Flash-related piece I've ever read, nice job!Greg Ehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16855723008184359985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-21391471726695995322009-12-14T16:57:35.825-08:002009-12-14T16:57:35.825-08:00thisisgone -- thanks for the link. We definitely c...thisisgone -- thanks for the link. We definitely covered some of the same ground.<br /><br />But I would like to address the Lorentz Transformations quantitatively, since you point to those as a possible explanation for his apparent strength. There is a catch (which I devoted some space to in a section that I deleted from this post) that "super speed" begins at speeds far, FAR below that of the speed of light. Here's the blunt fact: the speed of light is about 880,000 times the speed of sound. And even at 10% the speed of light, the Lorentz Transformations are still very, very slight (they would increase the mass of the object by half a percent). At the speed of sound, they are almost immeasurably small. To make the mass of an object double, you must push it to 87% the speed of light.<br /><br />So at 88 thousand times the speed of sound (which is pretty darned fast -- much faster than any rocket or anything moving on the surface of the Earth), the Lorentz Transformations still count for just about nothing. If the Flash picks someone up and runs at 500 times the speed of sound, you can't pin the explanation on Relativity -- he's just barely moving at a crawl from that standpoint.<br /><br />I think anyone who hasn't done the math will tend to drastically underestimate just how much faster light is than sound. And moreover, how the Lorentz Transformations only "add up" when something is moving at a very large fraction the speed of light. To explain what's happening when the Flash is moving at slower (but still "super"!) speeds, you have to have a non-Relativistic explanation.Rikdadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14475851964933197612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-19176101092141893892009-12-12T23:23:51.096-08:002009-12-12T23:23:51.096-08:00I wrote a blog march 30th of 2009 in livejournal c...I wrote a blog march 30th of 2009 in livejournal covering some of the same ground! I had considered doing a part two since there was so much more I could have rambled on about. <br /><br />http://thisisgone.livejournal.com/55090.html<br /><br />I don't think the consideration of muscle or strength is really necessary since Flash would gain mass as he approached the speed of light - negating what extra power the strength provided. It must simply be a function of his power rather than justified by any requisite strength.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-46298500542035588552009-12-09T13:58:21.281-08:002009-12-09T13:58:21.281-08:00Rikdad,
This is off-topic, but I thought you'...Rikdad,<br /><br />This is off-topic, but I thought you'd be interested:<br /><br />For the #10-12 arc of Batman & Robin "expect to learn quite a bit more about the mysterious history of Bruce Wayne's family tree."<br /><br />From www.comicsalliance.com/2009/12/09/andy-clarke-next-artist-on-batman-and-robin/Santa1Lardnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01570397892373877610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-29512415169216555212009-12-09T13:51:17.754-08:002009-12-09T13:51:17.754-08:00Good point on the stairs, Steve. I can see how tha...Good point on the stairs, Steve. I can see how that process would start, but it would require some really involved agility at the landings.<br /><br />Of course, they did slow down the Wally West Flash (and at times, Jay Garrick) to make him "more realistic", but that didn't last.<br /><br />I think there is a whole world of storytelling that is made possible by taking the speed literally, but that is another post. It's quite ridiculous that anyone without powers would ever aim a weapon at Flash and hit him, and that's a stock scene in all of the Captain Cold / Heat Wave / etc. stories. But I envision some really fascinating possibilities with the tactics of super-speed fighting that haven't been tapped yet in 70 years of Flash stories.Rikdadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14475851964933197612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-17270426681695866792009-12-09T13:46:38.506-08:002009-12-09T13:46:38.506-08:00Thanks, Adam. I have mixed science, research, and ...Thanks, Adam. I have mixed science, research, and engineering throughout my career. I'm not a professional physicist, but I play one on the web.Rikdadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14475851964933197612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-64650965346392008412009-12-09T13:22:10.270-08:002009-12-09T13:22:10.270-08:00Well done. I'm not a big Flash fan because I ...Well done. I'm not a big Flash fan because I could never get over the fact that if you could move that fast, how could you really have problems with any criminal. I'd have preferred slowing him down to as fast as a car speed. But that wasn't the point of your article. It was about science and comics mixing and that was enjoyable.<br /><br />Just a thought on the running downstairs. People don't do it because they can't run faster than falling. But if you could and you could push off the underneath of a step, I think you could run down. It does require all steps to have imperfections to push off from though.Steve Fhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10401841582274985572noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2404509015791000032.post-25601424579070057692009-12-08T08:57:15.368-08:002009-12-08T08:57:15.368-08:00Great writeup. What do you do for a living? Or, mo...Great writeup. What do you do for a living? Or, more specifically, do you work in the sciences? Either way, this is really, really impressive.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15773268020810431253noreply@blogger.com